Sirija - nekaj tu smrdi

Abraham

Fizikalc
16. feb 2011
5.436
2
36
63
LOL
Od kdaj pa Obamo boli k, kaj njegovi podložniki mislijo?
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Ytbnd

Guru
2. mar 2010
16.951
6.028
113
Citat:
Uporabnik Fadil pravi:
Citat:
Uporabnik 8888 pravi:
Sicer ne vem koliko si star , Izrael zato nastopa v Evropi, ker ga drugod ne marajo, je pa Izrael branik Evrope in Zahoda, prav tako kristjani v Libanonu! Zakaj se ne vprašaš, čemu turki nastopajo v Evropi, Ok imajo nekaj ukradenega ozemlja v Evropi ampak to je to.

Zakaj pa drugod ne marajo Izraela?
Gostinci zaradi njihovega obnašanja npr.
googlaj: israeli tourists behaviour
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AndY1

Guru
Osebje foruma
18. sep 2007
22.107
4.099
113
Putin’s Letter to America

Citat:
Vladimir Putin
September 12, 2013

MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Vladimir V. Putin is the president of Russia.
 

lafarge

Pripravnik
12. jun 2013
569
0
16
Predlagamo, da na ZN uvrstijo še
dagestan, čečenija, tatarstan

ter obsodijo napad na suverene države...

Me zanima kako bo potem Putinček v rikverc kopov
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jap demokracijo po Rusko...... tam si ni prizadeval za mir.... samo glihal je no to še počne....

ps pa niti kemičnega niso spušal.... kr brezveze jih tovčke
 

Abraham

Fizikalc
16. feb 2011
5.436
2
36
63
Dej, cement, a so te na dež postavili, da si tako trd?
Čečenija? Plačanci cie in SA (aka Al-Kaida) so hoteli v ruski bližini hoteli delati pizdarije in so jih pravočasno ustavili. Dagestan, Tatarstan?
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Od kdaj so to samostojne suverene države?
 

lafarge

Pripravnik
12. jun 2013
569
0
16
Citat:
Do prve krize je prišlo 6. septembra 1991 ko je bivši ruski general čečenskega porekla Dzhokhar Dudayev v Čečeniji izvedel državni udar in strmoglavil čečensko vejo komunistične partije. Njegova popularnost med ljudmi je čez noč narasla zato je razglasil neodvisnost Čečenije od Ruske federacija. Ker med Čečnijo in Rusijo ni bilo mogoče doseči nobenega dogovora je Jelcin v Grozni poslal posebne policijske enote, ki pa niso prišle dlje od letališča saj so jih tam obkolile sile zveste Dodayevu. Potem ko je Čečenija razglasila neodvisnost se je razdelila na dva dela; Čečenijo in Ingušetijo. Ingušetija se je kasneje priključila Ruski federaciji in se tako izognila vojni. Čečenija je popolno neodvisnost razglasila leta 1993. Kmalu zatem je državo zajel kaos. Gospodarstvo in javne službe so čez noč razpadle ljudje nečečenskega porekla so zaradi nasilja začeli zapuščati državo, general Dudayev pa je med ljudmi postal vedno manj priljubljen. Nevzdržne razmere v državi so pripeljale do dveh poizkusov državnega udara in državljanske vojne. Da bi Rusija preprečila širjenje spopadov v sosednje republike je na meje poslala vojsko s čimer so se napetosti med državama še povečale. Odkrito je začela podpirati tudi upornike, oktobra 1994 je skupaj z najemniki organizirala napad na Grozni, ki pas se je spremenil v katastrofo. Kasneje se je izkazalo, da so bili najemniki ruski vojaki. Vlada v Moskvi se

ti kje se skrivaš da te ne ukradejo...
Težna po osamosvojitvi... je zate terorizem....

zanimivo.....

Čeprav ne branim mulisčev, kokr so jih so jih premal.... tukaj se strinjava... pa naj si gre za Afganistan ali za katerokoli bivšo SSSR provinco...

Všeč mi je tudi Ruski korenček, cuzajo, cuzajo, ko izcuzajo, potem jih boli k.... Horda je pač horda.... Med sabo si lahko čopajo ude, vendar more biti balonček ograjen....

Koleterarne škode pa se dogajajo ko zombi prebije ogrado.
 

kravakonj

Fizikalc
30. okt 2012
5.215
0
36
No, Rusija je težko model demokracije, don't you think? V časopisu Novaya gazeta, za katerega je pisala Ana Politkovska, imajo zid novinarjev, ki so v glavo prejeli zahvalno kroglo - seveda so oblasti v vsakem od umorov aretirale in obsodile kriminalce, ki so te novinarje ustrelili.
 

kravakonj

Fizikalc
30. okt 2012
5.215
0
36
ksz
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/porocilo-zn-a-potrjuje-uporabo-sarina-v-napadu-pri-damasku/317837
Citat:
Mednarodni inšpektorji so zbrali "prepričljive dokaze", da je bil v avgustovskem napadu v predmestju Damaska uporabljen živčni bojni strup sarin, ugotavlja poročilo Združenih narodov.
Je pa zanimivo, kako hitro se ljudem prične j_ebati za folk, ki trpi v Siriji: natanko dva dni po Kerryjevem spodrsljaju je bila Sirija še na prvih straneh časopisov, sedaj so ljudje že povsem pozabili. Se pravi vzeli jim bomo kemično orožje in pustili, da se do konca pokoljejo s smodnikom, saj ni več nobenega govora o mirovni konferenci, posredovanju ZN itd ... 1:0 za 'civiliziran' svet in naj že nekdo umakne tisto tablo 'Never again' iz Dachauva, ker je že malenkost komična.
 

eazy

Rjuhar
5. sep 2007
12.971
3
38
Citat:
Uporabnik kravakonj pravi:
ksz
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/porocilo-zn-a-potrjuje-uporabo-sarina-v-napadu-pri-damasku/317837
Citat:
Mednarodni inšpektorji so zbrali "prepričljive dokaze", da je bil v avgustovskem napadu v predmestju Damaska uporabljen živčni bojni strup sarin, ugotavlja poročilo Združenih narodov.
Je pa zanimivo, kako hitro se ljudem prične j_ebati za folk, ki trpi v Siriji: natanko dva dni po Kerryjevem spodrsljaju je bila Sirija še na prvih straneh časopisov, sedaj so ljudje že povsem pozabili. Se pravi vzeli jim bomo kemično orožje in pustili, da se do konca pokoljejo s smodnikom, saj ni več nobenega govora o mirovni konferenci, posredovanju ZN itd ... 1:0 za 'civiliziran' svet in naj že nekdo umakne tisto tablo 'Never again' iz Dachauva, ker je že malenkost komična.

Dokler pri pobijanju uporablja biolosko priden svinec je vse
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, to je nekako sporocilo celega fijaska....
 

Abraham

Fizikalc
16. feb 2011
5.436
2
36
63
Sam koneckoncev je tudi svinec strupen (ne samo kugle), in bi morali biti tudi svinčeni patroni tretirani kot kemično orožje.
Da o bakru, v katerega so oblečene krogle, sploh ne govorimo.
Torej je vsak patron z bakrenim plaščem in svinčenim polnjenjem kemično orožje. Je pa res, da je bolj omejeno - ubije tistega, ki ga zadane, prenosa svinjarije faljenih šusov na okolje pa še nihče ni preiskoval.
 

veselilisjak

Sloven´c
22. jul 2007
25.329
356
83
39
Citat:
V napadu naj bi po podatkih sirske opozicije umrlo 1.400 ljudi, med njimi številni otroci.

Citat:
Ban Ki Mun je to označil za vojni zločin.

Četudi je res...

Naj gredo raje raziskat, koliko nedolžnih je umrlo v napadih USAAF & Co. in obsodijo odgovorne za to.

V spominu mi je ostalo ko so v Italiji obsodili in zaprli srbskega pilota, ki je pod ukazom sestrelil helikopter unproforja ali česa že
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Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.132
16.370
113
ZDA nima dokazev (drugače bi jih že pokazali), ZDA administracija VE, da za napadom stoji Assad in to je to. To mora zadoščati vsem, če pa ne...pa screw u all
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Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.132
16.370
113
Dvomim, da jih bodo ter res tudi malo dvomim, da jih imajo. Ampak glede na glup odnos USA to dejansko niti ni toliko pomembno...sedaj imamo besedo ene vplivne države proti drugi, prej je bila pa samo beseda USA proti ničemur (oz. proti za USA zanemarljivo nepomembnim administracijam). In to se mi kr dopade.
 

kravakonj

Fizikalc
30. okt 2012
5.215
0
36
Se strinjam, problem je le, da se vsi izogibajo 'slona v sobi' - v Siriji je še vedno vojna, zadnjič sem bral članek, da je večina zdravnikov pobegnila iz države - skratka, obstaja velika nevarnost, da se Sirija spremeni v Kongo, ali pa Somalijo, kjer je zahodna javnost imela interes nekaj dni, potem pa je vse skupaj odšlo v pozabo, s periodičnimi videospoti Geroga Clooneya, ko je potreboval reklamo za novi film.

Folk umira, Sirija pa se je spremenila v osebni dvoboj med Obamo in Putinom. IMO je še vedno edina rešitev intervencija pod pokroviteljstvom ZN. Assad je zmešan diktator, ki mu visi dol, če umre še naslednjih 100.000 ljudi, upor počasi prevzemajo fundamentalisti - folk je pa ujet v sredino.