Napetost v Ukrajini - Krimu

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
113
Citat:
Uporabnik darjan pravi:
Problem je, da vse kategorično zavračaš, kar se tiče amerike. Celo švedom in norvežanom se več ne verjame, dejansko ne verjamete nikomur drugemu, razen rusiji.

Se ti ne zdi to malo...mimo logika?

Meni se to zdi problem ja. Ampak ne problem, ker vse to kategorično zavračam ampak zato ker vem zakaj vse tako kategorično zavračam. Ameri "od druge svetovne dalje" delajo sranje po celem svetu, lažejo kot pes teče, na prvem mestu so jim zgolj in izključno oni sami, zraven se pa delajo tako lepe, da jim večina ploska z rokami pa še z ritnicami zraven in to vmes med bombandiranjem zaradi npr. orožja, ki ga nikoli ni bilo. In ker je bil že toliko laži do sedaj jim ne verjamem popolnoma ničesar (kar pa niti pod razno ne pomeni, da Rusiji oz. Putinu pa verjamem vse na besedo). Če bi mi Obama/Kerry/McCain/kdo drug voščil dober dan bi se naprej vprašal če je res dober, vmes bi šel pa še ven preverit, če je sploh dejansko dan.
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.265
7.049
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Rusi pa ne lažejo in delajo sranja? Kaj si že pozabil na vse masakre...saj veš kje?
 

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
113
Pa u PM no, a ti znaš brati?
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Kere fore no...če pa trollaš pol pa respect.
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.265
7.049
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Če bi mi Obama/Kerry/McCain/kdo drug voščil dober dan bi se naprej vprašal če je res dober, vmes bi šel pa še ven preverit, če je sploh dejansko dan.

Zakaj nisi tu dodal še Putina, če smatraš da so vsi enako pokvarjeni. Poleg tega pa nisem videl niti enega negativnega stavka napram putina, samo ameriko se kurca
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Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
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Zakaj ga nisem dodal? Zato ker sva se pogovarjala zakaj sem osebno apriori proti Američanom (kar se njihove politike tiče). Bo šlo?

Če bi bral moje predhodne oste (zdaj žal že dvomim v tvoje bralne sposobnosti) bi razbral, da se zavedam PR-a z obeh strani, torej vem in priznavam DEJSTVO, da lažeta, zavajata in napeljujeta vodo na svoj mlin OBE STRANI.

Bo zdej ok?
 

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
113
Citat:
Uporabnik darjan pravi:
Ok, kul, in zakaj nisi apriori tudi proti Rusom?

Zato, ker se Rusi ne delajo tako lepe kot Ameri, zato ker se za Ruse "ve" da so "grdi" in se tako žal tudi obnašajo, Ameri pa so oh in sploh lepi, v resnici so pa hinavski do amena in pokvarjeni prav enako če ne bolj kot Rusi. In ta hinavščina me moti. Rusija tudi ni nikoli delala toliko sranja po svetu kot ga je in ga še USA (pozor!!!!! - ne pravim, da Rusija ni nikoli delala sranja po svetu) in to ob takih lažeh svetovni javnosti, kot to izvaja USA (najlažji primer - orožje v Iraku, za katerega so bili 100000% da obstaja in da tudi vedo kje, pol pa nič od nič, ostala je zgolj razsuta država, kar je bilo USA čisto po godu, opravičila, razlage nobene). Pa še in še bi lahko pisal ampak se mi RES ne da več, že to zdaj pišem samo zato ker sem večen optimist in upam v najboljše v vsakem - beri - še vedno upam, da lahko slepi spregleda.
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.265
7.049
113
Aja, torej zato, ker rusi ne skrivajo svojih morij, so ti OK, ameri pa ne, ker pač delajo to pod pretvezo, da "rešujejo" svet?
 

Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
113
Jejhata no...ja Darjan, temu se reče hinavščina, kar je dodatna negativna lastnost USA ob vseh ostalih negativnih, ki si jih delijo z Rusijo. Pa ne da jih ne skrivajo ampak...eh...... nevermind. Kdaj pa kdaj slepec pač ostane slepec. In to, da vas je večina takih je prav tako njihov cilj.
 

Steve

Guru
13. avg 2007
10.012
1.911
113
Pusti ti njega, on je videl ze vse in on ve kak je
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Zdaj pa eno cisto resno direkt vprasanje, ne cila na nobenega osebno, tak informativno: pustimo medije na strani, kaj kdo servira, ampak koliko moras bit glup, da verjames, da se par pijancev zoperstavlja eni celi vojski, oborozeni do zob, ni kaj oni nimajo? Da jim noben ne pomaga z vojaki in orozjem?

To kaze na totalno zaplankanost, nepoznavanje sveta okoli sebe. Takih skupin je bilo ze nebroj in vedno jim je nekdo kril hrbet, ker ufoti zaenkrat ne mecejo orozja in denarja iz neba. Teh par pijanckov pa je s fracami in airsoft puskami ropalo kasarne, nakradli tolko orozja, da jim ena cela vojska ne pride blizu?
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.265
7.049
113
Saj vem, kaj to pomeni, ene vas tu, obtožujem istega početja, ker zagovarjate rusijo, ki je morebiti celo hujša, kot amerika, kar se tiče tega.
 

Steve

Guru
13. avg 2007
10.012
1.911
113
Citat:
Uporabnik Matey pravi:
Jejhata no...ja Darjan, temu se reče hinavščina, kar je dodatna negativna lastnost USA ob vseh ostalih negativnih, ki si jih delijo z Rusijo. Pa ne da jih ne skrivajo ampak...eh...... nevermind. Kdaj pa kdaj slepec pač ostane slepec. In to, da vas je večina takih je prav tako njihov cilj.

Se vredu da imamo tu tebe, da nam razsiris obzorje
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Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
113
Ok, Ok, se posipam s pepelom. Prepričali ste me vi, USA nas bo pa rešila tega rdečega ruskega hudiča. Ni vrag, da bodo prej ali slej zmleli tisto tretjino ukrajinc...ups...par pijancev, ki kradejo orožje, zato da se lahko igrajo z državno vojsko.

@Steve - odlično si me ocenil, bereš me kot odprto knjigo, respect
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Matey

AlterZavarovalničar
6. sep 2007
34.104
16.304
113
Citat:
Uporabnik Steve pravi:
Citat:
Uporabnik Matey pravi:
Jejhata no...ja Darjan, temu se reče hinavščina, kar je dodatna negativna lastnost USA ob vseh ostalih negativnih, ki si jih delijo z Rusijo. Pa ne da jih ne skrivajo ampak...eh...... nevermind. Kdaj pa kdaj slepec pač ostane slepec. In to, da vas je večina takih je prav tako njihov cilj.

Se vredu da imamo tu tebe, da nam razsiris obzorje
hysterical-1.gif

Napaka, jaz imam vas, da razširjate mojega
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dodaske

Pripravnik
18. apr 2013
928
0
16
Citat:
Uporabnik gloglo pravi:
no za suhoje pa dej vir.....

A za plin ni treba
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No pa dajmo... link


ampak je res težko vtipkat v google USA buys Su-27 in Ukraine?

Matr ste eni hinkoti....no....a pod oblastjo Rusov bi si Ukrajinci upal krast njihov plin pa prodajat stvari, ki niso Rusom v zadovoljstvo?

edit pozabil ti ne bereš ruske medije ker...so Ruski
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no pa dajmo tega .... link
 
Nazadnje urejeno:

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.265
7.049
113
Saj niso kradli, lepo smo videli, da je bil janukoviæ pobraten s putinom, ali zakaj misliš, da ga je sprejel s odprtimi rokami, ko je prebegnil v rusijo?
 

darjan

Vulkanizer
13. sep 2007
53.265
7.049
113
Citat:

VIENNA (Reuters) - European security watchdog the OSCE prolonged the mandate of its observer mission at two Russian checkpoints on the border with Ukraine by three months on Thursday, the longest extension so far.

Ukraine and the West have accused Russia of sending weapons and soldiers to help pro-Russian separatists in the country's east during the conflict that began after the overthrow of Ukraine's Moscow-backed leader in February. Russia denies it.

Violence has lessened in recent weeks and Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday the Ukraine crisis should be resolved as quickly as possible. His comments came two days after U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Russia had made constructive moves toward reducing tensions.

The 57 member states of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which include Ukraine, Russia and the United States, decided by consensus to extend the mandate of the mission at the Gukovo and Donetsk checkpoints until March 23.

The mission of 22 civilian observers was launched in July with a three-month mandate and had already been extended twice, in October and November, by one month at a time.

"The observers will report on the situation, including movements across the Russian-Ukrainian border at the two Russian checkpoints," the Vienna-based OSCE said in a statement.

The mandate would not change, it said, despite a U.S. call two months ago for an expanded role for the observer mission.

The OSCE also operates a separate, larger monitoring mission in Ukraine itself with international observers seeking to reduce tensions and report on the situation on the ground. That mission has a mandate also running until March.
 

Pac_Man

⋆Распут&
10. maj 2014
2.211
0
36
Šel sem skozi "Ukraine freedom bill"

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2828/text

Verjetno najbolj zanimiv del je direktna grožnja Gazpromu, naj se ne zajebava z dobavo plina zaveznikom, sicer bodo sankcije.

Citat:
(3) Contingent sanction relating to gazprom.--If the
President determines that Gazprom is withholding significant
natural gas supplies from member countries of the North
Atlantic Treaty Organization, or further withholds significant
natural gas supplies from countries such as Ukraine, Georgia,
or Moldova, the President shall, not later than 45 days after
making that determination, impose the sanction described in
subsection (c)(7) and at least one additional sanction
described in subsection (c) with respect to Gazprom.

Orožje:

Citat:

The President is authorized to provide defense
articles, defense services, and training to the Government of Ukraine
for the purpose of countering offensive weapons and reestablishing the
sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, including anti-tank
and anti-armor weapons, crew weapons and ammunition, counter-artillery
radars to identify and target artillery batteries, fire control, range
finder, and optical and guidance and control equipment, tactical troop-
operated surveillance drones, and secure command and communications
equipment, pursuant to the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act
(22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.), the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C.
2151 et seq.), and other relevant provisions of law.

Ostali so bolj warm&fuzzy z malimi odobrenimi zneski (50 mio $ in manj)

pomoč beguncem:

Citat:

(1) In general.--Not later than 30 days after the date of
the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of State shall submit
a plan, including actions by the United States Government,
other governments, and international organizations, to meet the
need for protection of and assistance for internally displaced
persons in Ukraine
...
(A) helping to establish a functional and
adequately resourced central registration system in
Ukraine that can ensure coordination of efforts to
provide assistance to internally displaced persons in
different regions;
(B) encouraging adoption of legislation in Ukraine
that protects internally displaced persons from
discrimination based on their status and provides
simplified procedures for obtaining the new residency
registration or other official documentation that is a
prerequisite to receiving appropriate social payments
under the laws of Ukraine, such as pensions and
disability, child, and unemployment benefits; and
(C) helping to ensure that information is available
to internally displaced persons about--
(i) government agencies and independent
groups that can provide assistance to such
persons in various regions; and
(ii) evacuation assistance available to
persons seeking to flee armed conflict areas.

Pomoč vojaški industriji:

Citat:
Assistance to the Defense Sector of Ukraine.--The Secretary of
State and the Secretary of Defense should assist entities in the
defense sector of Ukraine to reorient exports away from customers in
the Russian Federation and to find appropriate alternative markets for
those entities in the defense sector of Ukraine that have already
significantly reduced exports to and cooperation with entities in the
defense sector of the Russian Federation.

Afganistanski Mi-17 se bodo verjetno servisirali v Ukrajini.

Pomoč na energetskem področju:

Citat:

(B) Elements.--The plan required by subparagraph
(A) should include strategies to address heating fuel
and electricity shortages in Ukraine, including, as
appropriate--
(i) the acquisition of short-term,
emergency fuel supplies;
(ii) the repair or replacement of
infrastructure that could impede the
transmission of electricity or transportation
of fuel;
(iii) the prioritization of the
transportation of fuel supplies to the areas
where such supplies are needed most;
(iv) streamlining emergency communications
throughout national, regional, and local
governments to manage the potential energy
crisis resulting from heating fuel and
electricity shortages;
(v) forming a crisis management team within
the Government of Ukraine to specifically
address the potential crisis, including
ensuring coordination of the team's efforts
with the efforts of outside governmental and
nongovernmental entities providing assistance
to address the potential crisis; and
(vi) developing a public outreach strategy
to facilitate preparation by the population and
communication with the population in the event
of a crisis.
...
(C) Assistance.--The Secretary of State, the
Secretary of Energy, and the Administrator of the
United States Agency for International Development are
authorized to provide assistance in support of, and to
invest in short-term solutions for, enabling Ukraine to
secure the energy safety of the people of Ukraine
during 2014 and 2015, including through--
(i) procurement and transport of emergency
fuel supplies, including reverse pipeline flows
from Europe;
(ii) provision of technical assistance for
crisis planning, crisis response, and public
outreach;
(iii) repair of infrastructure to enable
the transport of fuel supplies;
(iv) repair of power generating or power
transmission equipment or facilities;
(v) procurement and installation of
compressors or other appropriate equipment to
enhance short-term natural gas production;
(vi) procurement of mobile electricity
generation units;
(vii) conversion of natural gas heating
facilities to run on other fuels, including
alternative energy sources; and
(viii) provision of emergency
weatherization and winterization materials and
supplies.

Povečanje domače energetske proizvodnje:

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(A) Plans required.--The Secretary of State, in
collaboration with the Secretary of Energy and the
Administrator of the United States Agency for
International Development, shall work with officials of
the Government of Ukraine to develop medium- and long-
term plans to increase energy production and efficiency
to increase energy security by helping Ukraine reduce
its dependence on natural gas imported from the Russian
Federation.

Lobiranje pri IBRD in EBRD:

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(4) Support by the world bank group and the european bank
for reconstruction and development.--The President shall, to
the extent practicable and as appropriate, direct the United
States Executive Directors of the World Bank Group and the
European Bank for Reconstruction and Development to use the
voice, vote, and influence of the United States to encourage
the World Bank Group and the European Bank for Reconstruction
and Development and other international financial
institutions--
(A) to invest in, and increase their efforts to
promote investment in, projects to improve energy
efficiency, improve and repair electricity
infrastructure, develop domestic oil and natural gas
reserves, and develop renewable and other sources of
energy in Ukraine; and
(B) to stimulate private investment in such
projects.

Podpora civilni družbi:

Citat:

(1) In general.--The Secretary of State and the
Administrator of the United States Agency for International
Development shall, directly or through nongovernmental or
international organizations, such as the Organization for
Security and Co-operation in Europe, the National Endowment for
Democracy, and related organizations--
(A) strengthen the organizational and operational
capacity of democratic civil society in Ukraine;
(B) support the efforts of independent media
outlets to broadcast, distribute, and share information
in all regions of Ukraine;
(C) counter corruption and improve transparency and
accountability of institutions that are part of the
Government of Ukraine; and
(D) provide support for democratic organizing and
election monitoring in Ukraine.